NASCAR Needs a True Playoff Or None At All [UPDATED]

"The World of Vee" (theworldofvee) 09/15/2013 at 16:28 • Filed to: NASCAR

3

50

The dust has settled, the controversy is seemingly over and alleged !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! were righted. NASCAR is officially in the Chase! If you're a casual fan and have been hearing all the hubbub about NASCAR this week and decided to tune into the Chicagoland race, you may be wondering why there's so many cars on the track if this is a "playoff". Well I'll give you a quick answer: Because 43 cars means more money.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! was a PR nightmare for NASCAR (or was it? I can't remember the last time so many people talked about it) and they made a bunch of knee-jerk decisions. But apparently while they're perfectly content adding a 13th driver to the 12 driver Chase, they didn't think it prudent to get rid of the other drivers and make this race a proper playoff. I shouldn't have to ask the question, but what's the point of driving the last 10 races if there is nothing to be gained in the standings? Sure there is a paycheck, but even if you win the race, will anyone truly care?

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The push for a "post-season only" post-season might not be an extremely popular one (much like my stance on Cup drivers racing !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ) but at least it can logically make a lot of sense. Cautions and restarts are products of crashes. Drivers like to "luck" out by getting a free pit or make up a lost lap during a caution and when there is an extended stretch of racing without a caution everyone gets a tad bit nervous. But what if drivers didn't have to worry about all those cautions? Most cautions occur in the back of the pack where the cars begin to bunch up and bottleneck, we know that drivers will spin to help their teammate (evident last week) and we know that restarts can change the entire complexion of the race.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I'm not saying that having only the Chase drivers would eliminate cautions, cautions occur because racing is inherently dangerous and frankly, difficult. But it give us, the spectator, much better driving. Long passes, every driver jawing for a position here and a lead lap there. I know I'm waxing romantic about such a situation but if NASCAR continually wants to call the Cup the best racing series in the world something has got to give. It's not as if NASCAR will forgo competition cautions to let the teams check the tires and refuel, there is too much at stake to risk consistent green flag pit stops. But it would definitely cut down on the unnecessary crashes and worse, a lap car knocking out a Chase car from the race.

In a way the final 10 races are a rather cruel way to remind the Non-Chase drivers of their shortcomings over the course of the season. Especially to someone like Martin Truex, Jr. who had tasted the fun and excitement of getting into the chase Saturday night only to have it yanked from him Monday and is still expected to race this week and give it his all. I feel for him if only on a purely human level. I'd be hard pressed to try and give anyone in that situation a pep talk leading up to this race: "Sorry your teammate and NASCAR screwed you? Better luck next year?" I think a cold beer and a Lazy-Boy would be a much more therapeutic approach, but then again I don't have Sunoco Race fuel coursing through my veins.

UPDATE: I guess it wasn't apparent that I'm not a huge supporter of the Chase. I like the idea of some sort of shuffle, but not this. In my eyes after 25 races the points should be restructured just like they are, but instead of a "Chase" everyone can still technically win the Cup. This is appealing to me because it guards against complacency by the driver in the lead and it gives the drivers not in the Chase a reason to drive and more drivers a legitimate shot at winning it instead of a hard and fast cut off.

Z_Stig > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 16:31

3

Playoffs. Are. For. Stick. And. Ball. Sports.

Actually, if I had it my way, I would have baseball go back to the old way; NL champions vs. the AL champs.

The World of Vee > Z_Stig 09/15/2013 at 16:32

0

oh most definitely agree. but if they're hellbent on making sure there is a playoff then at least make a proper one

Eric_M_White > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 17:25

3

These are the points as they were after Richmond. My question is, since NASCAR changed the point system to 1 point per position, why is the Chase even necessary anymore?

Frogger49 > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 17:34

1

My thoughts: The moment you boot everyone but the Chasers from these fields during the Chase is the moment the series collapses. Why? Because no one would sign on to sponsor these teams, even those good enough to get into the Chase. At best, the overall field would shrink into (at best) the high teens to low 20's. I have no personal knowledge here, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are paybacks that already must be made to sponsors if a team doesn't make the Chase. Michael Waltrip (before all this stupidity occurred) claimed that the only way his business model works is if he makes the Chase. Also of note, they recently announced that Aaron's is on the No. 55 for all 36 races next year. Unfortunately, that kind of deal, which used to be the norm, is very rare today.

The Chase definitely needs to go. It's Brian France's baby, essentially. He apparently wanted to institute it long before he actually did, but his own father (Bill France Jr.) blocked him. I was opposed to it from the moment Jimmy Spencer referenced it on NASCAR Victory Lane in Homestead right after the 2003 season finale. To me, it sounded crazy when Spencer mentioned it back then.

The World of Vee > Eric_M_White 09/15/2013 at 17:38

0

hard agree.

NinjaViper > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 17:42

1

when you hear them always say about 'team' its "we win as a team we lose as a team" and for martin truex this is that 'lose as a team' time, not alway win win happy go lucky

Phathead > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 17:54

2

Just 12 drivers in a race? For real? That's even more blasphemy than the damned Chase system.

HardigreeIsRealMad > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 18:04

2

Only 12 (Or this year, 13) drivers on the track would be incredibly boring. After each driver pulls away from the driver behind them, it would look like a standard Vettel-F1 race. You'd have to zoom the cameras waaaaay out just to get 2 cars in the same shot. And it would eliminate 30 competitors from the field. Obviously, Danica Patrick isn't going to be holding up Jimmie Johnson or anything like that, but getting rid of 3/4s of the field would make it too easy for the drivers who remain.

The World of Vee > Phathead 09/15/2013 at 18:05

0

hence it needs to either happen to make the Chase make sense, or (much better) the chase just needs to be abolished in general

The World of Vee > Frogger49 09/15/2013 at 18:09

0

oh no doubt that sponsors have incentive laden deals, but this is all the more reason that a feigned playoff is silly. Right now if there was no chase this race would have 15 people who theoretically would be in the running to win the race (and have a legitimate shot).

If they want to reset the points at the end of 25 races that's fine by me. I like the concept of restructuring but keeping everyone in because that guards against complacency by the driver overwhelmingly in the lead. But they shouldn't just "eliminate" 80% of the field for no reason.

But if they're going to, then they shouldn't be on the track period.

The World of Vee > HardigreeIsRealMad 09/15/2013 at 18:11

0

agree, but in my opinion it's the only way to justify the "chase"

Rather than a Chase, after 25 races, restructure the points and keep the field open.

#1 still has the best chance of winning, but at least the 43 drivers have something to drive for no?

BJDonnellan > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 18:25

0

the other drivers are still racing for something so I don't get your argument.

1. They and their crews want to get paid, this is their job after all

2. They still want to win because they love to race, winning a race is huge to a driver regardless if it count towards a championship, a win is a win.

3. Not being in the chase lets them do plenty of testing of new set ups and strategies to benefit their teammates in the chase as well as prepare for the next season.

4. Sponsors.

5. The owners championship is not subject to the chase points structure.

6. Like the previous commenter mentioned 12 drivers driving in a circle would be fucking retarded.

there is an argument to not have a chase at all to keep the other drivers more relevant, but lets face it if you are 13th in points you probably aren't winning the season at this point any way, so with the chase instead of having the majority of the field irrelevant save for the very few who are still in contention, you automatically put 12 drivers in a situation where they can win the championship.

tl;dr with the chase more drivers are relevant than without it

BJDonnellan > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 18:26

0

Dusty Ventures > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 18:34

2

I'd like to see a points system that only gives points to the top 20 (give or take 5). Should get rid of the damaged cars running 50 laps down and 2 mph over the minimum speed.

lagwolf > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 18:42

2

#boycottthechase for me. Not watching the clusterfuck. Sadly most #Nascar fans won't & the idiotic Chase will remain for next year.

RichyJ123 > Eric_M_White 09/15/2013 at 18:43

0

Even with the new points system plenty of recent seasons would have essentially ended with 2-3 races to go.

Many may not like the chase but it does increase interest in the final 10 races

Victorious Secret > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 18:49

2

Playoffs? You mean the 2 and some odd months that test what a team is really made of?

Nah, too much work for NASCAR.

Just wear your damn mask... > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 18:55

5

The Chase is broken. Not only has the format allowed what happened at Richmond to happen, the idea that you have a playoff where drivers continue to compete after being eliminated makes the playoff literally worthless. What makes a post season interesting is elimination games or series leading to a championship game or series.

Just wear your damn mask... > HardigreeIsRealMad 09/15/2013 at 19:16

2

Which is why the Chase was flawed from the beginning and needs to go away.

The World of Vee > Dusty Ventures 09/15/2013 at 19:26

0

that would be interesting for sure i think points should be running order at the checker and then 10 points for whoever led the most laps, 5 for the 2nd most and 3 for the third most.

Throw in a point for leading 2 or more laps if you must but it'd be so much simpler and easier to understand if it was 43 points for first, 1 for last.

Dusty Ventures > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 19:55

0

The only issue I see there is a driver could lead a bunch of laps early, fade to sixth or seventh in the second half, and come home with more points than the winner.

The World of Vee > Dusty Ventures 09/15/2013 at 19:57

0

true but they'd be rewarded for consistent high class driving and the winner would be rewarded for...you know...winning the race.

I dunno it'd only really matter if the guy finishes top 10 and leads laps, otherwise #1 will edge him out for points.

Dusty Ventures > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 20:06

1

How about this for a points structure. Simple structure, intervals change every 5 positions, an extra point in the interval for second and third, three extra points for the winner:
1: 55 pts
2: 48 pts
3: 43 pts
4: 38 pts
5: 34 pts
6: 30 pts
7: 27 pts
8: 24 pts
9: 21 pts
10: 18 pts
11: 15 pts
12: 13 pts
13: 11 pts
14: 9 pts
15: 7 pts
16: 5 pts
17: 4 pts
18: 3 pts
19: 2 pts
20: 1 pts
Pole: 3 pts
Lead a lap: 1 pts
Lead most laps: 4 pts

Dusty Ventures > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 20:09

0

Even so, it seems like too many points, especially for the tracks that transition from day to night. A driver could have a car that's only good until sunset and still leave with the same points as the driver who finished ten spots ahead of him

The World of Vee > Dusty Ventures 09/15/2013 at 20:11

0

fair enough, it's just a draft and 10 was an arbitrary number

OutOfHere > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 20:34

1

My vote, not that it matters, is none.

DCCARGEEK > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 21:17

0

Why does racing always need to culminate into some kind of championship champion-of-champions event/crown?

Race. Crown a winner. Party.
Race. Crown a winner. Party.
Race. Crown a winner. Party.

Break. Shuffle teams / sponsors.

Race. Crown a winner. Party.

I know it's somewhat sacreligious but I'm focused more on the race, as I assume every driver should be, to give a shit about P8's point standing.

bravelittletoaster > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 21:28

0

If "the chase" has to remain a thing, I think it should be done sort of like you said, but with small changes. The 30 cars not in "the chase"? First race of the day. Immediately after that, the playoff drivers race. Shorter races, and everybody still gets to race and keep sponsors happy (nascar's main purpose these days).

/just a guy on the internet

Axel-Ripper > Eric_M_White 09/15/2013 at 21:33

0

The issue you have with this is assuming that Jimmie Johnson would have been reeled back in. It is widely known around the sport that once the 48 is locked into the race the R&D begins. The races between the 48 getting locked in and the chase actually starting have been poor nearly every year because Knaus is putting stuff on the car to test and see what happens, basically throwing them all in the interest of bettering their abilities in the chase.

Were it not for the chase, you would see the Vettel syndrome where he just keeps on winning until the championship is locked up with 5 races to go.

CasaMofo > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 21:40

1

How about they change the system again? I like the idea of Having Top 25 Finishers receive points. 30 points for 1st, 27 for 2nd, 25 for 3rd, 23 for 4th, 21st for 5th, and the 20 down to 1 for 6th through 25th. Keep the 1 point bonus for leading a lap, and have 3 point bonus for most laps led. (First place does not get single lap led bonus, as they already led a lap).

Then, to have it be more intriguing, bring back 2 bonus systems. Have 10 races throughout the season that have double points, and 5 races throughout the season that operate similar to the Winston No Bull 5, with a 2 Million dollar bonus to the winner if one of the top 10 finishers from the previous double points races.

Obviously this would require elimination of the chase, as this points system would negate the need for a Chase. If NASCAR still insists on some sort of playoff, perhaps a "Final 5", where the top 5 in points with 5 races to go begin a knockout style system where the bottom finisher by points is removed, and then the next race, points are even again unless the top finisher won the previous event. If so, That winner would be given a 3 point edge heading into the next race. All of the above is based on the points system I mentioned above.

Alternatively, if the chase is to be kept, I vote for a change to a 15 point system for just the chasers, and then the rest of the field remains on regular system. 14 points for 1st, 11 for 2nd, 9 for 3rd, 7 for 4th, 6 for 5th, and 5 for 6th, 4 for 7th, 3 for 8th, 2 for 9th, 1 for 10th. bottom 2 don't get points. This is irregardless of where they finish on the track, unless they win, in which case a 1 point bonus for 1st finisher, for a total of 15 points. Also, they must finish on lead lap to score points.

Adding a further tweak, consider the "Final 5" knockout system I mentioned above, where top 5 after first 5 races enter the knockout round. Anything would be better than what we have now.

The World of Vee > CasaMofo 09/15/2013 at 22:14

0

that's a lot of changes! Haha I don't disagree with any one change, but I think they need to be gradual or it'll just be confusing.

GrauGeist > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 23:00

0

If the last 10 races shrank the field by a car or two as the season wound down, that would be interesting. Your boy does good, you get more TV time. He fails, you get slightly less:

43

36 - 30 - 28 - 26, then
24 - 22 - 20 - 18, then

16 - 15 - 14 - 13, then

12-car final.

Clay_T > HardigreeIsRealMad 09/15/2013 at 23:04

0

NASCAR solved this issue many years ago when they invented the "Debris" caution flag.

dataPOG > Dusty Ventures 09/15/2013 at 23:10

0

25th to 43rd should get the same amount of points. Ths will keep cars involved in big ones off the track.

This will also reduce legitimate debris cautions from damaged cars.

Dusty Ventures > dataPOG 09/15/2013 at 23:15

0

Works for me!

Clay_T > The World of Vee 09/15/2013 at 23:54

0

Best part of all this drama and controversy... haven't seen the "D" word mentioned all week!

Me Boosta > The World of Vee 09/16/2013 at 00:46

0

So here's an idea...

Why not make the "playoff" system more of a head-to-head competition between drivers? Think about it like the NFL playoff. Instead of the entire playoff field playing against each other simultaneously, have the drivers square off against each other. Then incorporate the way points are scored currently and let the driver who scores more than their opponent driver move on to the next round.

Now, I know a normal bracket will only last 4 races, so do a double elimination, or "Losers" bracket. This would allow drivers 2 chances to advance, keep them in contention longer, and fill that 10-race "Playoff" period.

Im sure I can't be the only one who thinks this would be extremely intriguing to unfold on TV.

Lord Itchy > Phathead 09/16/2013 at 01:28

0

It could work if instead of a chase the last race was a 12 car shoot out.

Bill Caswell > The World of Vee 09/16/2013 at 02:32

1

Playoffs in motorsport are a joke. The whole reason motorsport kicks a$$ is because every team gets to compete at the same time, against every other team, under the same conditions with only one winner.

Anything else is contrived and geared to pull viewers from other sports where they are used to a playoff because every team in the league can't play everyone all at the same time. Its also a BS marketing game which allows them to sell the advertising for the final 10 races at ridiculous rates because its the playoffs and there's no risk of the winner being decided prior.

Hasn't Nascar been on a steady decline since The Chase was introduced in 2004 or so? This article seems to think so: http://www.thatsracin.com/2012/07/07/910…

monkeyracing > The World of Vee 09/16/2013 at 03:05

1

I've got a totally wacky idea: Run a bunch of races, say from the start of the season until the end of the season, then whoever has the most points when it's over gets to be king of the trailer park. it's really simple. If 20 cars start a race and you end up in first, you get 20 points. If you're second, you get 19 points. The great part is even the poor chump who ends up last gets a point.

No extra points for leading a lap, best paint job, or whatever. Just straight out winning or losing. Too radical?

thesailormansaysfuckjimspanfellerforever > Just wear your damn mask... 09/16/2013 at 04:52

0

I like the idea of elimination. How about once the chase starts, they lop a few cars off the starting grid for the next race in the playoff, so by the end maybe twenty cars or so remain? Like the cut-offs in golf.

theart > The World of Vee 09/16/2013 at 06:53

1

How about a proper drivers' playoff? Finish off the season velodrome style, with a 5 lap, one on one match racing event. No pits. No cautions. Use the season's points to put the drivers into a bracket and see who's left at the end of the day.

Just wear your damn mask... > thesailormansaysfuckjimspanfellerforever 09/16/2013 at 07:03

1

There is no need for any gimmicks. Gimmicks lead to overly creative strategizing.

j4066 > Dusty Ventures 09/16/2013 at 09:28

1

That's exactly what got a lot of people mad a few years back. Stewart won the cup, but hadn't won a race at all that year.

NASCAR (read; the French family) immediately sprang into action and skewed the points more so victory weighed heavier.

tomtom615 > The World of Vee 09/16/2013 at 10:04

1

Frankly, even if it makes canned excitement, my idea for the chase is to institute eliminations like a real playoff. Let your 12 in through current means, works well enough, i guess, then eliminate the worst remaining finisher each week. You go into the final race with a 3 driver, winner take all format. This creates excitement throughout the chase to see who gets eliminated each week, and the final race is unmissable since a champ will be crowned and 2 losers will lose.

I know what you're thinking "What if JJ's engine blows week 1?"

Answer: Tough shit, shoulda had a better engine

"What if a lapped car takes out my driver?"

A: That's racing, see ya next year.

No matter what happens in the chase there will be excitement and the winner will truly earn their championship.

The World of Vee > Bill Caswell 09/16/2013 at 12:32

0

I am on record saying that the Chase is silly. It's so silly that the only way to make it make sense is to have an actual playoff situation (where there's only the post-season drivers). Otherwise it's just...the same thing but now with the stipulation that only a select number of people can win the cup.

I think that the Chase should include everyone, but at the conclusion of the 25th race the points should be reseeded so that the best racer is still the best shot to win but it's not such a landslide that the last 9 races don't matter anymore. I just hate having lame-duck races...when a Football team locks up their league with 5 weeks to go (as my Bayern Munich team did last year) the rest of the games are just completely insignificant in my eyes. And I do think that 10 races is a LONG time and that some fringe racer (say for example Truex) could get hot and win 6 or 7 of those races and would deservedly have the Cup. THAT'S what makes racing fun, not all the bullcrap that NASCAR is feeding us at the moment.

chezcliff > The World of Vee 09/16/2013 at 14:00

1

The best idea NASCAR had was simplifying the points; the worst was the Chase. Now that we've seen how badly the system can be gamed, let's admit it sucks and go back to a real season-long championship.

thesailormansaysfuckjimspanfellerforever > Just wear your damn mask... 09/16/2013 at 17:13

0

I read some more of the posts after commenting and thought that NASCAR has just gone too far down the "gimmick" road. They are beholden to too many sponsors to boot cars out of races anyways (Just imagine the meeting where Budweiser or Mobil is told their car won't be competing in a race). I think the points system for a championship is about as good as they can hope for. Unfortunately, some years the format won't make for a good climax much like in baseball or hockey. Still, if they run races, people will still be interested in watching. Maybe just have more mid-season "championship" events. Perhaps a "young guns" sub-championship. Just have more goals to attain so if the Sprint Cup is decided there's still something else to fold in as a narrative. I'll just watch because I like the camera work at some of the races and 43 900-horsepower cars on a short track is just fun to watch.

layzbumm > Dusty Ventures 09/16/2013 at 17:35

1

If you're more laps down than the number of laps left in the race, you should have to exit off and stay out of the way. Are you 50 laps down? Then with 50 laps to go, you should leave, because it's not going to make a difference. 5 laps down? At 5 laps to go, you go home! Just my $.02...

jeff_hotchkiss > The World of Vee 09/16/2013 at 21:52

1

I wouldn't mind a Chase with elimination. So the 12 drivers get in. After races 1 and 2, the 11th and 12th place drivers are eliminated. After races 3 and 4, 9th and 10 are out. After races 5 and 6, 7th and 8th are out. After race 7, 5th and 6th are out. Then after race 8, 4th is out. After race 9, 3rd is out. And it comes down to two drivers for the championship. Obviously, there'd be more to think about, but this is just a basic idea.